SFWA President Cat Rambo made a vile attempt to downplay Moira’s Greyland’s story of the abuse she suffered at the hands of Marion Zimmer Bradley. To someone like Rambo, MZB’s identity as a feminist and gay icon is far more important than the real human who was hurt. In her capacity at SFWA, Rambo should be championing Moira, a best seller with a related work in the field — instead, she downplays the relevance in order to make more politically charged and wholly irrelevant attacks on the president. She’ll go so far as to protect the pedophiles in sci-fi that she’ll label anyone concerned over what happened to a real human being “alt-right” in order to dismiss them.
Sick. She refuses to disavow a dead pedophile and deflects. Why? We can only speculate, but from what I’ve observed in Sci-Fi fandom in conjunction with Moira’s story, MZB and Breen are not isolated incidents. The exposure of their story frightens the gatekeepers of the industry who have pushed an agenda of this lifestyle for decades. But what leads to such a defensive reaction to such a tragedy occurring to someone in the science fiction scene?
Moira Greyland’s book The Last Closet: The Dark Side Of Avalon has shaken up more than just a small slice of fandom. Going to #1 in three categories and staying there, it’s shaken the entire world. Everyone is talking about this book, and for good reason. It highlights a very dark side to our culture that some of us have been warning about for a long time, and shows the tangible end result of a creepy “anything goes” sexualized culture.
Greyland speaks in the book on how Walter Breen’s end goal was to normalize his creepy behavior and his lifestyle, and since the 1960s, with the help of science fiction fandom, he’s succeeded in doing that far after he’s gone.
A science fiction convention is now not a place to take kids. Most of them have lost their focus on their goal — promoting science fiction and fantasy as a gathering of authors meant to further and encourage the craft. If you look at nearly any convention programming they have official programming littered with explicit sexual topics ranging from LGBT promotion to BDSM. Baycon, the convention famous for removing me from speaking, at least in 2014, had a whole room open full time dedicated to bizarre sexual fetishes, which had tables to tie up and strap down people while they were switched and other bizarre behavior. In a prior year, I vividly recall a disgusting display of two women both clad in tight pleather, one parading the other around on a leash, kicking and humiliating the other in an open display down in the main lobby of the hotel — it was only 6 or 7 o’clock, not that late, and well within the sight of children. There were bizarre reports at another convention a couple years back of a woman ripping her pants off on a panel in a brave act of feminism.
I’ve heard stories of orgies and other sexual favor trading at different conventions. Science Fiction as a community is a cesspool of anti-morality, not anything literary.
And these conventions are mostly filled with professionals or aspiring professionals. There’s very few average readers or fans anymore, and for good reason. One can’t have a fun weekend bringing a family to an environment like this. The behavior of Walter Breen has been completely normalized, and it’s gone well beyond that.
It’s no wonder these people are so obsessed with “harassment policies”. One innocuous off-color joke by a Tor editor several years ago sent all of fandom spiraling and signalling. He was fired and ostracized from conventions after that. But it’s as they say, SJWs always project. The reason they focus so hard on what they call harassment, is they have far darker skeletons in their closets. They know the actions they and their friends engage in, and so they have a hyper focus on the public appearance, the social element. They witch hunt average men to call harassers, all while on the other hand promoting the most deviant, pornographic lifestyles imaginable. Ironically, my wife, a far more beautiful woman than anyone you’ll see at a sci-fi con, has only had problems with men creeping on her and going over the line twice in her life — both by self-professed male feminist science fiction professionals and at science fiction conventions.
It’s more than just protecting their friends. These are the same people that control the stories that are produced, that control the content you read and see. They’re a pipeline for their stories to Hollywood, and these groups want stories normalizing their deviancy and depravity so that an entire culture can be brainwashed into accepting criminals like Marion Zimmer Bradley and Walter Breen. This is another reason we need to support the independent alternatives, the new people trying to create a culture separate from what’s gone on with the elites since the 1960s.
For now, support Moira, give her your love. Show her your very human kindness and compassion. What occurred to her is beyond awful, and there’s no way in hell we should be quiet about it or let this die down. The war just changed with what Moira exposed, and how the elites ignore, demean and defame in order to whitewash it. Our enemies aren’t just making fiction stories and we shouldn’t just “not buy them”. We have to do more, and we have to enact change. This is the tip of the iceberg and we must purge the entertainment industry of these creeps.
Who knew SFWA stood for Sexual Fetishists Whipping Asses?
Good one.
Sounds like Cat doesn’t think we should always believe women.
You’re only supposed to believe women who claim a now-powerful politician did “something” to them years ago when there’s no proof or the proof is counterfeit.
You’re only supposed to believe women who suffered no lasting affects from whatever the now-famous politician did to them years ago for which evidence was fabricated.
Any woman who offers proof or still struggles today should be scorned and ridiculed.
Those who act like this, I’m looking at YOU Cat Rambo, need to aspire to become dog shit scraped off a shoe. But that’s a high bar.
Fixed that for you.
It’s tribal.
Whatever one of “theirs” does is no big deal and all allegations with no proof anyway, and if there is proof it’s never reliable and it’s no big deal anyway, it wasn’t like THAT no matter what comes out and who says what (they are obviously lying anyway).
What any of their rivals/enemies/”those others” does or is rumored to have done is a big deal, and especially if it can be proven it’s proof how rotten they all are. All and any proof is conclusive evidence, and no witness would of course not lie, why would they? Have to believe the victims.
All groups of people who feel connected with something are at least somewhat prone to this behavior, but yep, some are worse than others and the old fandom seems to have gotten pretty rotten.
I guess all you can really do is just to do your best not to fall prey to it yourself. Witch hunts are bad too, but groups should damn well make sure they police themselves and don’t let evil like this to metastasize.
Back in the ’80s the sf and D&D guys I knew in college would tell me about the wild stuff that happened after hours at cons and I was shocked. When I started going to cons in the ’90s, I’d just go home at the end of the day. If I was at a hotel, I’d stay away from the room party scene. It’s still my policy though I go to big comic cons and to stuff like Star Wars Celebration rather than smaller sf lit cons.
I remember when Moira Greyland first dropped allegations against her parents several years ago and there was a huge rift in the sf community because of it. Why? Many people in this scene are survivors of abuse and incest and many people are perpetrators, while others valued what MZB championed in her books too much. It’s like the anecdote I read once about how the late Betty Friedan was a nightmare on the book tour circuit, rude and nasty to the people assigned to assist her, but it was kept quiet because of “what she did for women.”
I went to GenCon a few times and managed to find the sorts of parties where people would get drunk and pass out in the hotel halls. The worst anyone did to them was record their excesses for posterity.
Then one year that all changed when two women got sexually assaulted and I quit going to cons after that.
Cat Rambo should apologize and step down. Others in SFWA should be calling for this (I’m not a member). Her comment is beyond disgusting and depraved. What skeletons are in her closet?
This is standard not only at Gencon but at most cons. “The Party Floor” is where this kind of stuff happens.
Funny – nothing like that happened when we were cruising all the parties at the Worldcon we attended. Remember that? First time we met in person? Cruised quite a few parties and I don’t remember even seeing more than a couple of scantily clad folks. Were they hiding all that pervertedness from us??
Things have gotten much worse since 2006 since the crazies have gained more control of these events.
They don’t wait ’till after hours on the party floor these days, they get right into the depravity in the hotel lobby! Reason #432 why I haven’t been to a big con since the late 90’s.
Wow, I had no idea this kind of crap was going on. Yes, I will support the alternative to it. No question.
Coward. She refuses to even face the claims made within the book, employing same cheap, cowardly deflective tactic that many on the left used during the recent sex scandals. “Yes… yes… BUT WHAT ABOUT TRUMP???” Pathetic…
Started the first three chaps of this book- Excellent and very Brave.
…maybe I’m just going to the wrong cons. Or the right ones, where this kind of thing, if it happens, is kept behind closed doors. And I would really like to know where all this sexual harassment is happening, because I’ve been frequenting the con scene for… twelve years? now, and no one’s ever touched me. Maybe I just put out a “don’t mess with me vibe”? Maybe I’m one of the guys?
Also, I’ve noticed in all this kerfuffle that people have been awfully quiet about NAMBLA apologist Samuel R. Delany…
F&$king Right they are.
They hold a guy like Delaney in esteem.
That’s all I need to know about them. Disgusting, depraved little people.
Not all cons Jon. You’ve been to LIbertyCon. You know there are good cons out there.
Cat should be ashamed of her post/tweet/whatever. I know that MZB meant a lot to some people and it is hard for them to balance that with the horror show she was in private.
I want to buy a copy of Moira’s book. I don’t know that I could take reading it. I’m sorry that happened to her and others.
There’s exceptions, and agreed on Libertycon being one of them, but the vast majority.
Cat does have a point though. In general, y’all are either blind to the abusers in your own ranks, or you’re purposefully using certain cases selectively for cheap political points. Neither is good, but I’ll be charitable and assume it’s the former.
I couldn’t figure out if you were just being obtuse or ignorant with that statement.
So I am going to be charitable and embrace the power of “And” here, and say it’s both.
It would be charitable indeed to assume that “Ryan” is arguing in good faith, but I will not presume to be the judge of his motives.
I find it amusing (though rather expected) that he accuses us of being guilty of the disingenuously selective argument that Ms. Rambo appears to be utilizing.
It would seem the three laws are once again borne out, this time with “Ryan” generously projecting on Ms. Rambo’s behalf.
Ryan is apparently a liar. Moore was accused not proven and Trump said something – no proof he did anything. Only a leftist whore can equate those to a convinced child molester.
Cat has no point whatsoever, at least not from the Tweet cited in Jon’s point. “Whataboutism” isn’t de facto wrong, but in this case it’s a non sequitur. The issue is Moria’s story and why her parents are still lauded in the science-fiction community given their verifiable history. And if you want to play this political game (even though I see nothing in the Marion Zimmer Bradley story that has anything to do with Democrats or Republicans), there’s a Bill Clinton-sized elephant sitting on “the other side,” just to name one example.
You can’t fault others for trying to score “cheap political points” while being fine with someone else doing the exact same thing.
“Jon’s post,” rather.
Don’t confused “not explicitly condemning someone when random twitter guy harasses you about it” with “lauding”.
I don’t know anyone who lauds MZB today.
You don’t know much, do you?
Hi tweell! Good comment.
I think from now on I’m going to refer to Rambo as “Rainbow Not-Very-Bright”.
You do know that this ‘news’ about MZB and her husband is really, really, really stale, right? Just because you weren’t paying attention doesn’t mean that the publishing of this book is a shock to those who *were* paying even passing attention.
Which is why CatRambo is absolutely right and you’re once again displaying your un-Christian radicalization since you endorsed an ephebophiliac for the Senate. The difference being that he’s *alive* while Moira Greyland’s parents aren’t.
So tell me: Why, exacly, haven’t you denounced the *living* perpetrator. Why did you bet that he’d win by 13 (or was it 14?) points? Why is denouncing the dead who can no longer be punished more important than denouncing the living and ensuring he stays un-elected. Got the guts to answer that honestly? I’m betting not.
As for cons being dens of iniquity, I noticed that you attended DragonCon at least twice while a known gay pedophile was on their Board. Why is that? It was known. It was talked about widely in many many fan sites and pages. Yet you continued to support it?
When you can dig up something from this millennium, rather than transparently politically-motivated and unsubstantiated accusations dated from the Bicentennial, on Roy Moore, get back to us.
In the meantime, it’s telling that Cat deflected a question about MZB onto current politics rather than answering the actual question.
In the interest of fairness, I went over to her account to see if Jon had taken a quote out of context. Cat Rambo didn’t deflect any question at all. It’s a stand-alone statement. Funny, though, that you’re complaining about decades-old events surrounding Moore but you think that decades-old events surrounding MZB are relevant. Do at least try to appear consistant…
Stop defending pedophile defenders on my blog. I’ll ban you over that.
What was incorrect about Jan’s statement?
Given that I did no such thing, I don’t understand why you posted that instead of answering any of the questions I asked you. Avoidance or deflection?
MZB is still lionized in certain SF circles, therefore she is still relevant, and what she did is still relevant when knocking her off that pedestal–especially when there’s a brand-new book out detailing her horrific crimes. Moore has not (apparently, because they would have dug it up if they had, and you know this is true) engaged in the behavior he’s accused of since he got married.
Do try to keep up.
“MZB is still lionized in certain SF circles…”
None that I am aware of. Can you provide specifics?
There’s still an annual Sword and Sorceress antho with her name on it.
OK, you are correct, MZB is still lionized in certain obscure circles directly associated with her trust.
It’s a well-regarded pro-paying antho that gets hundreds of submissions every time they open to subs. Just because YOU haven’t heard of it doesn’t make it “obscure.”
They’ve been publishing it annually for over 30 years now. It’s a SFWA qualifying market. That’s not “obscure.”
So he short answer for this is who and how is this going to be cleaned up. Because if this is allowed to fester the long term damage could affect even innocent people in sci-fi and fantasy
Jon.
So we’ve just seen a glimpse of real spiritual war haven’t we?
Question
Will the SWFA implode and disappear?
I can’t it survive this outrage. I bet we’ll see a lot of skeletons breaking down the closet very soon.
xavier
Yes we definitely are seeing that.
Jon
I guess i’m lucky. I’d seen the book in my teens at the local bookstore but i wasn’t interested in fantazirs at the time I wasn’t aware of her conduct and had heard some stifv when she died but ignored as she never interested me as an authour.
Now the revelations have shocked me. So thete’s one writer i’ll never read
There are so many much more moral and better writers out there
“More than enough room on the helicopter for everyone… for a one way trip anyway.”